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Post by gj on May 31, 2020 16:50:15 GMT -5
Though I've seen it mentioned before, it was shortly after va commented on the ceph wall thread about how Cephalotus were prone to fungal issues that I happened to read an article mentioning Cephalotus being exposed to salt spray from the ocean. From what I read, it sounds like much of that salt is probably washed away by rains or moving water, so I was wondering if perhaps occasional misting of salt water, followed by a flushing of the pot would be beneficial in the cultivation of Cephs for fungal control, and perhaps other things as well. I've seen some other websites/forums mention in passing salt being applied in unspecified ways to Cephs, or that there might be some salt content in sand someone took from a beach to mix into their potting mix, but aside from that, very little. I'm also not sure what percentage of the Ceph population might be close enough to beaches to be exposed to salts, so perhaps it is just a small segment and the rest of the wild population is living perfectly healthy lives without it, rendering this question relatively irrelevant. But I just thought I'd throw this out there in case someone had any experience or theories regarding salt and Cephs.
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Post by dvg on May 31, 2020 19:19:53 GMT -5
GJ, though I won't just dismiss that idea out of hand, as it could have some merit to it, i'd still be cautious with adding a NaCl salt solution, either by misting or pouring into the media itself, and a good rinse afterwards is strongly recommended, if you do decide to experiment with salt sprays or drenches.
If you are curious about a salt that helps to deter fungal issues, perhaps you can try using magnesium sulphate or Epsom salts.
It breaks down into magnesium and sulphur, elements both necessary for plant health, and sulphur is known for its antifungal attributes.
1/8 teaspoon of pure Epsom salts (avoid essential oils or other scented brands) per liter, applied once a month, is a safe concentration for foliar spraying or even pouring into the soil.
dvg
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Post by gj on May 31, 2020 19:46:25 GMT -5
Thanks DVG!
Haha no intention of encouraging people to try this, nor trying it myself anytime soon. I don't have enough experience with cephs, or plants to be experimenting with those kinds of things. I was just curious if anybody had heard of the experiment being done. I assume because I've seen mention of salt treatments, but haven't heard any results, any attempts were probably unsuccessful or abandoned as a bad idea.
I have heard of Epsom salts being used for certain orchids before for the benefit of the elements you mentioned so that makes sense.
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va
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by va on Jun 2, 2020 15:36:55 GMT -5
Good point about the Epsom salts Doug. I know it is used as a therapeutic in fish diseases as well. But yea, my 2 cents is that if you are facing fungal issues, I don't think salts will necessarily fix it (long term) and it necessitates a need to look into cultivational practices that might need improvement. I personally haven't come across using salt as a way to treat or prevent disease onset and the fact that anecdotally, almost no one uses it and people are able to grow this species successfully means that it is definitely not required for longterm success.
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Post by dvg on Jun 2, 2020 16:10:23 GMT -5
Varun, yes when it comes to fungal issues, the subject can get a bit more complex than our current limited understanding allows for. Salt is better known for its effectiveness with battling and controlling bacteria, though. And yet, there are bacteria that are associated with and live on sea salts, from the oceans. www.bostonmagazine.com/restaurants/2013/12/23/chefology-bacteria-sea-salt/Previously, i'd wondered if there was a beneficial relationship between Ceph roots and a salt affixing bacteria, that protects those roots from the salt buildup, and possibly from other bacterial or fungal pathogens. Of course, the above thought is just pure speculation, but as ive seen before, nature is even stranger than that. But sometimes it can be fun to speculate. dvg
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Post by gj on Jun 2, 2020 22:45:31 GMT -5
... But sometimes it can be fun to speculate. That's exactly what prompted this thread. Just giving the mind permission to explore the outlandish. Sometimes it leads you to a dead end, sometimes to a discovery regarding the topic of interest, and sometimes you end up learning about possible ways to play with your sauerkraut making process haha.
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Post by dvg on Jun 3, 2020 10:53:10 GMT -5
and sometimes you end up learning about possible ways to play with your sauerkraut making processYup, natural fermentation is a beautiful thing...just dice up yer veggies, add 2% sea salt per veggie weight, add declorinated water... ...and even pickled Ceph pitchers are possible, though i can't vouch for their tastiness or palatability. Seriously though, natural fermentation food preservation is a lost art. This book is a great place to start... www.amazon.ca/Art-Fermentation-Depth-Exploration-Essential/dp/160358286Xdvg
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Post by gj on Jun 3, 2020 11:35:04 GMT -5
That actually might be an interesting read. I used to make wines at home all the time (a hobby I picked up from my grandfather), but never really got into the science of it so much as just following the process. One of the best batches of sauerkraut we ever made included some homemade mead mixed into the pot as we were salting and compressing the cabbage.
As for the pickled cephs, perhaps that could be a side, or even an element in the stuffing in Cole's steamed ampullaria dish haha.
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Post by dvg on Jun 3, 2020 11:59:49 GMT -5
Haha, Cole certainly isn't afraid to experiment with CP inspired culinary dishes to cook up... ...he has already told me that he is thinking of popping an U. alpina tuber into his steamer, and sampling that. And with a yogurt made with the assistance of the mucilage of Pinguicula leaves, used as a dip, Cole might surprise us all with what CP based meals he might whip up. dvg
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Post by Outdoors And Botanical on Jun 21, 2020 23:22:57 GMT -5
Never heard of it but its an interesting point. I found i got a lot of fungal issues or root rot when haveing it planted in a pot like normal plants. Now i cut a pot on an angle and slope the substrate so the ceph grows on a "hill". And so far i havnt had sny problems.
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Post by gj on Jun 22, 2020 6:07:25 GMT -5
O and B, how long did you have them before the fungal issues showed up? I think I've had mine since October, so I'm assuming I've not had mine long enough to decide whether my conditions are sufficient to mitigate the fungal attacks. The room they were has pretty low humidity levels during the winter, which didn't seem to cause any issues with the plant itself, and when it seemed like it wasn't bugging them, I didn't bother trying to raise the humidity for them, thinking the drier air might help prevent some of those issues.
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Post by perrywing on Jun 22, 2020 20:49:23 GMT -5
Fascinating theory! It only makes sense that wild cephalotus would be exposed to sea spray and salt, considering how near some of the plants seem to be to the ocean. This is not my picture, but I think it makes a good point. The cephs are literally a couple of feet away from the water. If you've ever spent time near the ocean, you know you can taste the salt in the air a long ways off. But then again, we all know how intolerant CPs can be regarding minerals and mineral buildups. Perhaps the reason they form on slopes is exactly why they can live so close to the ocean - any salt spray will quickly wash downward and away from them. I cannot imagine they would do well so close to the water on a flat surface. I guess we'll never really know, but it's clear they've managed to take advantage of this very particular niche and run with it, which is why I find CPs so fascinating in the first place.
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Post by gj on Jun 22, 2020 21:12:44 GMT -5
What a great picture! Was there any location data with the picture when you found it?
And you never know, maybe someday someone will have the time, interest, and resources to really dig into the topic. But regardless, it is certainly an interesting plant, amongst a great number of interesting plants this hobby introduces us to.
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Post by perrywing on Jun 30, 2020 20:53:18 GMT -5
What a great picture! Was there any location data with the picture when you found it? And you never know, maybe someday someone will have the time, interest, and resources to really dig into the topic. But regardless, it is certainly an interesting plant, amongst a great number of interesting plants this hobby introduces us to. No, I can't seem to find any information on this particular picture. I got as far as the person who originally posted it, but I can't seem to find it in any of their online galleries. I'll dig a little deeper maybe, and if I find out I'll let you know! Haha, I'm almost willing to sacrifice one of my cephs for this experiment, but when the time comes to actually spray it with salt, I'm not sure I could! They're all my little babies and I love them too much to do that to them! Maybe someday I'll be brave enough!
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Post by gj on Jun 30, 2020 21:11:44 GMT -5
perrywingHaha don't be risking your precious babies, I can't handle the consequences on my conscience. And your cephs look pretty darn happy as it, so no need to rock the boat just because I get crazy notions once in a while! It would be super interesting to see if populations that live as close to the ocean as those in the picture you shared perhaps had a higher tolerance to salts than those that are further inland though. Thanks for having a look for the location data!
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