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Post by gj on Jun 8, 2020 11:58:32 GMT -5
DVG, I most certainly will make sure they make an appearance barring some unforeseen failures. Here's another rookie question fitting this thread: Do you guys give epiphytic Utricularia a dry period? I just realised, with all the care information I've been trying to soak in, it wasn't until now that the phrase "requires a dry period" in some literature for both quelchii, and alpina (amongst others) caught my attention, both in Savage Garden, and in a CPN article from 1995 about asplundii, and endresii ( Vol. 24 No. 3). Since it appears that this rest would take place during hot dry summers, I wasn't sure if, being that mine are inside and can be kept out of those conditions, they'll just grow happily without entering a dormant phase, or if, like other temperate plants, they will suffer in the long run without a decent rest.
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Post by dvg on Jun 8, 2020 12:43:31 GMT -5
Hi GJ, mine were kept moist, but without standing water in their water dishes, during winter here.
I kept them moister and also started fertilizing them weekly, beginning last October, because they were new plants and I wanted to encourage their growth.
But with the chilly overnight temps, they all slowed down considerably in their growth anyway.
Next winter, I'll keep them drier and because they make tubers, they can withstand some drier conditions or even seasonal drought.
Of this group, endressii is probably the most susceptible to rot, if its dry period conditions are not properly respected.
If the cooler dry period winters are skipped entirely, these plants will likely lose steam, and peter out, before entirely giving up the ghost after a few years time, although alpina may buy you more time, as it is considered to be the most forgiving of this group.
dvg
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Post by gj on Jun 8, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -5
Thanks DVG!
I guess if they are to undergo a dry period, they must die back as well. If that's the case, can you let them lead, and wait until you see signs of growth before ramping up watering again? Or must you gradually start increasing the moisture levels after a couple months to nudge the plant back into growth?
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Post by dvg on Jun 8, 2020 17:05:09 GMT -5
That's a very good question GJ, and one that I can't answer based on my experiences because mine weren't kept all that dry, in the relatively short time I've had them growing here.
I've read that they don't really go dormant, unless they are very dry, and then they would die back to their tubers, until the moisture returned again.
It is hard to say which is more important to their long-term health; whether giving them cooler winter temps as that slows down their growth considerably, or shrinking back to their tubers in very dry conditions.
Both will give them a rest, but I don't know which is better or more necessary for them to reenergize themselves, for the upcoming flowering season.
U. endressii is the one species from this group, that I'll be paying particular attention to next winter, ensuring that it is at least on the drier side of slightly damp.
As to keeping them so dry that they recede back to their tubers, i'm really not sure if they'd be willing to send out any growth without an available water source already in place.
But once watering commenced again, it would probably send up flowers in celebration.
dvg
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Post by gj on Jun 8, 2020 17:25:37 GMT -5
My theory is much the same regarding growth following water, rather than vice versa, but I've had my nose in a couple posts on certain orchids that seem to require the latter rather than the former, so I didn't want to make that assumption too quickly.
It's also interesting that you mention the cooler temperatures possibly being a bigger factor than the lower moisture levels. I was once again thinking the same thing, but the CPN article I linked to states that "it appears that the increase in temperatures triggers the dormancy" (last sentence of the third paragraph). That said, he also mentions blooms happening in mid-January, so his plants are clearly on a different schedule than ours haha. When I've got a bit more time, I'll have to have a look and see what temperatures accompany the dry seasons in their native lands.
EDIT: *I misrepresented part of your response DVG, you didn't suggest cooler temperatures were a bigger factor, but instead suggested that it was a potentially more important factor in allowing the plant to rest. My apologies!
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Post by dvg on Jun 8, 2020 17:52:15 GMT -5
Hi GJ, the writer of that article was from the US and their hotter summer temps in his greenhouse would send those plants into a state of stress. My daytime temps never go above above 24°c at most, so these Utics just keep chugging along. And his plants might be blooming in mid January because his southern states side temps have warmed up his greenhouse sufficiently, to get them growing again. That article was from 1995, and the writer didn't sound like he had a lot of confidence with either quelchii or campbelliana, both species needing cooler temperatures in order to thrive. Have to wonder if part of his problem with these plants was in providing for the appropriate night time temperature drops in summer, in his southern locale, and in keeping the maximum daytime temps at 25°c or even below that. The literature has grown a lot since then. Not sure if ive posted this link here before, but it shows a 30 year average of monthly weather conditions for Auyan Tepui. www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/auy%C3%A1n-tepuy-massif_venezuela_3648773It's interesting to note the averages, but also the fluctuations of peaks and lows, for each month, in the various categories, Haha, no worries about the edits, I'd made a few earlier myself, changing my mind in midstream. dvg[/i]
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Post by gj on Jun 8, 2020 22:42:22 GMT -5
That climate link is perfect, thanks DVG!
And it's nice to know that for all the disadvantages our northern climate gives us when it comes to growing plants from more tropical areas, it also offers up some advantages too!
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Post by dvg on Jun 9, 2020 12:07:13 GMT -5
And it's nice to know that for all the disadvantages our northern climate gives us when it comes to growing plants from more tropical areas, it also offers up some advantages too! Our cooler nights and moderate days are a definite plus when it comes to growing tropical plants from higher altitudes. dvg
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Post by gj on Jun 26, 2020 11:01:49 GMT -5
Looks as if my U. praetemissa has given up on the developing flowers that I shared on May 31st. The outsides all went a lighter colour, and the inside that was swelling has taken on a brown colour. They've been out of direct light where they are, and I've had the cool mist humidifier going on them, but perhaps the damage was already done from previous conditions, and was just slow to show itself. I thought maybe the fact that this spring, the termperatures in that room have occasionally gone up to 28C during the day (most days the max is 26C) and only go down to 20 at night, perhaps my temperatures weren't helping, but based on va's conditions mentioned in another thread, it seems those temperatures aren't unacceptable. Any chance this could be a result of insufficient feeding? I've been going pretty light on the fertilizer, and haven't been supplying any edible fauna other than what might find their way into the pots on their own terms. My alpina "Henry Pittier" still seems to be coming along fine, so if it it blooms with no problem, maybe I can take that as suggesting the conditions are a little more satisfactory now, and if it doesn't, then I'll know I'll have to do some more trouble shooting.
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Post by dvg on Jun 26, 2020 11:46:19 GMT -5
Hi GJ, it looks like your last flower bud on your flower stalk there, will bloom. The calyces do turn snow white as the maturing flower swells. My plants were getting fed weekly since mid October, but haven't been fed in five weeks now, so I definitely want to start feeding mine again. GJ, these are still as new to me as they are to you, so still trying to find that sweet spot that makes them happy enough to flower. So, i'm keeping humidity levels up with the help of a small humidifier and also keeping a safe distance between lights and the developing buds. On the topic of "Henri Pittier", my plant's flower stalk is growing downward, away from the lights and towards its neighboring pot's damp sphagum topdressing, more like the type of growth i see with adventitious stolons in my ren-nel. The mystery and wonder these plants will provide their keepers, is well worth the price of admission. dvg
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Post by gj on Jun 26, 2020 12:19:03 GMT -5
DVG,
haha too true. The challenge alone makes me appreciate them that much more.
My alpina is reaching across instead of up as well!
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Post by dvg on Jul 1, 2020 21:03:46 GMT -5
Hi GJ, just curious if you've been spraying your Utric flowers with a hand sprayer, or not. I had been hand spraying (1 liter squirt bottle) my Utrics during the day, every three to four hours. But because my water is coming out of the eaves trough, there is no doubt that a heavy bacterial load is in that collected water. And my praetermissa has too protested by aborting its flower, which turned brown, from which i am attributing to bacterial rot. My alpina flower stalk has aborted its first flower with the same type of browning. Because of this issue, I stop squirting the plants a few days ago, to see if the flowers would develop and bloom properly. A small ultrasonic humidifier is still running, and provides adequate supplementary humidity to my Utric space. Well, the second alpina flower has now opened, and it is showing a blemish from my previous spraying habit. However, the third flower on that stalk looks good, is opening without any brown at all. I believe this is because it hasn't been sprayed since it began to open. I've discussed this with Cole, and he doesn't have that issue, because his water is a lot cleaner than my swamp water. So just something i thought i'd share because it is disappointing to have these great blooms brown and rot, just when they were so close to putting on a flower show. dvg
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Post by dvg on Jul 1, 2020 21:31:30 GMT -5
Here is a quick cell pic from a few minutes ago. You can see the blemished flower petal, not forming properly, but the spur on that one was healthy. Hopefully, the last two flowers open without incident, and i can put this issue to rest. And with a second shot at another developing praetermissa flower stalk, i'll be able to see if my spraying was the issue here as well. Cheers, Doug dvg
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Post by gj on Jul 1, 2020 22:15:14 GMT -5
DVG,
This is most interesting. I have been misting mine as well, but only once in the morning, and once at night. I used to only spray the top of the pot just to keep the exposed moss and stolons from drying too much, but I started misting the flower stalks themselves after my first experience with browning tips which we had discussed may have been from the intense light it was getting, or from the humidity change as it breached the edges of the tub they are in. After that, I moved them somewhere a little more protected from the sun, and I started giving the flower stalks just a pump or two with the squirt bottle to mist them twice a day, along with the regular pot misting I was doing before. It was just after I moved them that I also added the cool mist humidifier to help support them humidity wise.
I have been using water from the rain barrel which is collected through the eave troughs as well. I used to boil the water to cut back on what was getting into my pots, but it seemed like the water was staying visibly fairly clean aside from the slightest bit of algae build up now and then, and the plants I didn't boil the water for like my flytraps and some of my Drosera never showed any signs of the non-boiled water bothering them, so I abandoned that practice. It was just a couple weeks after I gave up on the boiling that the developing flowers which had just begun to open went from being nice and green to aborting. Now that of course could be just coincidence, but based on the timing, and the experience you've just shared, there could certainly be something to support this idea that the less than sanitary water might be having a detrimental effect on the flowers that have just begun to open.
My alpina 'Henry Pittier' flower stalk looks to be developing wonderfully, but none of the flowers that have taken shape have begun to open yet, and so perhaps they have been protected from any bacterial attack to this point. I'll go back to just misting the pots for now, and fingers crossed they open up happy as can be.
Thanks for tipping me off! You may have just prevented me from making a mess of another plant's flowers haha.
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Post by dvg on Jul 2, 2020 12:10:56 GMT -5
GJ, we'll see if this cleans the issue up. When i first got these plants last year, they were only sprayed with RO water. Then, as I gathered more of the tuberous Utrics, to help save on my RO drinking water, I switched over to water collected by melting snow, and didn't have issues with using that water, either. But when my supply of melted snow water dried up, I just assumed that water from the eaves trough would be fine as well. So much for that assumption, but an easy enough fix, if the spray ban is effective. dvg
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